Curse

Ozab · Jun 26, 2011, 01:32 PM // 13:32

1. Per chapter HM unlock should be account wide, instead of per character. Or alternatively dump the HM unlock requirement altogether.

Requiring the unlock only serves to further split the player base. A lot of veterans are only interested in HM, new players, and veteran re-rolls, cannot access HM for days or weeks after starting a new chapter.

This one's a repeat, but it ties in well with #1. And since it was last brought up, many other titles have been streamlined to remove grind. So now it much more clearly fits with anets current vision of GW1.

2. Completing a Mission or Dungeon in HM should also count as having completed the same Mission or Dungeon in NM, for purposes of the Protector and Master of the North title tracks.

If you can do it in HM, then you could've done it in NM. Having to do everything twice, especially on a character other than your first, adds grind with little purpose, or sense of accomplishment.

Tommy's · Jun 26, 2011, 02:03 PM // 14:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ozab

Requiring the unlock only serves to further split the player base. A lot of veterans are only interested in HM, new players, and veteran re-rolls, cannot access HM for days or weeks after starting a new chapter.

You could also look it in a way that the veteran players need to do NM again and thus can help/bring along newer players which heals a split in the player base.

As far as your point 2 goes, it is indeed a bit strange that when you've done it in HM you still need to do it in NM. Specially since I don't like doing NM anymore because its too easy. Couldn't say I would like Anet to invest too much time in it, don't care about it all that much.

vitorvdp_68 · Jun 26, 2011, 02:06 PM // 14:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ozab

1. Per chapter HM unlock should be account wide, instead of per character. Or alternatively dump the HM unlock requirement altogether.

In a way, it is already account wide. All it takes is beating a campaign ONCE with one guy and all other guys at level 20 can access it. This request smells of laziness.

Reformed · Jun 26, 2011, 02:07 PM // 14:07

"You unlock hard mode for your account by completing a campaign's final mission with any character. Once unlocked, hard mode is available to every Level 20 character on the same account."

Wouldn't hold my breath on the second idea, half the work for twice the credit? Nah...

ruk1a · Jun 26, 2011, 02:40 PM // 14:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tommy's

You could also look it in a way that the veteran players need to do NM again and thus can help/bring along newer players which heals a split in the player base.

Lol because most of the player base wants to take their sweet time helping noobs through missions they have likely done countless times already? Yeah... I think not... most people just roll through with heroes as fast as possible not to mention they pay to get ran everywhere so skip a lot of places where noobies would be.

jensyea · Jun 26, 2011, 02:50 PM // 14:50

#2 is a very good idea, removes grind indeed.
#1 isnt neccesary

J3az · Jun 26, 2011, 02:57 PM // 14:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by jensyea

#2 is a very good idea, removes grind indeed.
#1 isnt neccesary

/agree

I think in the time this post was made though you could have gotten Ascended or closer to the stars.

Kook~NBK~ · Jun 26, 2011, 03:08 PM // 15:08

#1 - It already is account wide, just have to get characters to level 20 once unlocked by the first one through.

#2 - You have a point there, but doing things in both NM & HM isn't that big of a deal. (Especially now that NM has been reduced to super-easy and fast mode with full hero parties.)

Venganza · Jun 26, 2011, 03:52 PM // 15:52

Game is getting too damn easy as it it, leave things as they are.

Cuilan · Jun 26, 2011, 06:10 PM // 18:10

I wouldn't want to see new players stuck in hard mode like how new players become stuck in Embark Beach forever.

caballo_oscuro · Jun 26, 2011, 06:16 PM // 18:16

/notsigned

1. It's not that difficult to unlock HM. Each campaign is a separate game so getting one character to the end of it unlocks hm for every lvl 20 char.
It then takes only a couple hours to level a new char to 20 in factions and not too much longer in nf. Once the character hits 20 then they can use hm for any of the games unlocked.

2. No, these are separate titles with separate goals and enemies of different level strength. For a new player they would only have to complete the games once in nm and then have hm unlocked to go through again in HM. If you think playing the game is time wasting then go find something else to do instead of moaning that you have to do two things.

Having to do the dungeons in nm and hm are separate parts of the same title so simply doubling up your points automatically is not the best way to improve the game. If you don't want the title, just don't play the content and stop your moaning. And really, again, if this game is just weaisting your time, how about you go do something else, like maybe getting an education and working towards something...

Kanyatta · Jun 26, 2011, 10:43 PM // 22:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by caballo_oscuro

2. No, these are separate titles with separate goals and enemies of different level strength. For a new player they would only have to complete the games once in nm and then have hm unlocked to go through again in HM. If you think playing the game is time wasting then go find something else to do instead of moaning that you have to do two things.

Having to do the dungeons in nm and hm are separate parts of the same title so simply doubling up your points automatically is not the best way to improve the game. If you don't want the title, just don't play the content and stop your moaning. And really, again, if this game is just weaisting your time, how about you go do something else, like maybe getting an education and working towards something...

Stop being self-righteous. These titles don't have separate goals at all. Dungeon-crawling nowadays is basically just roll as many N/x's as possible and C+Space to victory anyway. Playing the same content twice is a waste of time, that's why so many people don't do it.

I know I got Eternal Protector of Tyria on my Ranger, and the thought of going back and doing Every. Single. Effing. Mission. And. Bonus. Again... it's just unbearable, that's why I've put it off for over 3 years, and I'll probably never get GWAMM on any character. Just because I purely don't have the necessary time to put into the game. Maybe if I exclusively PvE'd on one single character, I might have some full HM completion title on any one of my characters, but for now, I just have a few dozen HM missions/dungeons completed on a handful of characters.

GW PvE was created on the basis that it was not supposed to be a grind, and primarily for advancing a role-playing character to become ready for PvP, which is what the game was primarily based around. I'm all for anything that makes PvE less of a grind. I think if I've proven I can kill 300 level 28 monsters, I can kill 300 level 20 monsters.

Kunder · Jun 26, 2011, 11:34 PM // 23:34

#1 is already true. lolfailOP

#2 would be good. Only possible problem is with the storybooks counting double and giving too much profit for HM players, but it would be easy enough to fix this and only give NM completion credit and not storybook unlocks.

KZaske · Jun 27, 2011, 12:07 AM // 00:07

I honestly think access to hard mode once you have all the missions with masters/bonus and then only for that toon. But that is just me. As for idea one - fail because it already is that way. For idea two - no thank you. If you can do the mission in HM then you should have no trouble getting it done in NM.

Dagoth Umbra · Jun 27, 2011, 12:38 AM // 00:38

@KZaske

Durp Durp Durp, of course if you can do it in HM you can do it in NM, that is the point, quite frankly, a lot of dungeons suck balls (Darkrime Delves) and it is miserable doing them once, let alone twice.

MithranArkanere · Jun 27, 2011, 01:55 PM // 13:55

Hard mode access is already streamlined:
- Complete NM once -> Unlock HM.

1. HM is already unlocked account wide. you just have to reach level 20, if you want to get into HM content without reaching level 20 first.. well... That's not probably going to happen, specially since you can get to level 20 in less than 6 hours without any kind of powerleveling.
Of course, you have to unlock HM in each campaign and the expansion separately, and that's on purpose, so you play NM at least once in each one.

2.
* NM and HM have different playstyles. Some things are even easier in HM, for example, defeating the doppelganger is way easier in HM, since the guy just kills itself faster. Last time it was Zaishen quest, my average time in HM was 10 seconds, while the times I made it in NM had an average of 30 seconds. The goals may be the same, but what works in NM doesn't always work in HM, neither everything that works in HM works as good in NM. Also, enemies in NM sometimes even have different builds. Most enemies under level 20 have no elites, but their HM counterparts will have elites, and sometimes even other extra skills.
* In the same way we can't have people getting HM merits for doing just NM, we can't have NM merits for doing just HM. Otherwise we'll have people getting 2 rewards for doing something once, while others have to make both to get both rewards if they chose to make NM first. That just won't be neither logical nor fair.
* NM missions have separate rewards. You don't get paid twice for doing something once. If you want the rewards for NM, you do the NM version. Them having the same plot and events changes nothing. Doing a dungeon twice in NM gets you two rewards, yet they are exactly the same, not even with changes in skills like in the case of NM vs HM missions. But NM gets you NM rewards, and HM gets you HM rewards. This is somehow a similar case. If you want two rewards, you have to do two things.
* You may think: "So give just completion towards the title, and leave the other rewards such as gold, reputation, exp and skill points for actually doing the NM mission", but that changes nothing, because the completion towards the title is PART of those rewards too, you can't separate them. If you get protector, you did the quest in NM. That's what protector means, not just doing them. You can't grant it for doing the HM the mission in HM.
* Even for the Galrath HM quest you have to make the NM before. That's how GW works. I doubt it will ever change.

Kanyatta · Jun 29, 2011, 12:50 AM // 00:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

* You may think: "So give just completion towards the title, and leave the other rewards such as gold, reputation, exp and skill points for actually doing the NM mission", but that changes nothing, because the completion towards the title is PART of those rewards too, you can't separate them. If you get protector, you did the quest in NM. That's what protector means, not just doing them. You can't grant it for doing the HM the mission in HM.

This is exactly what this discussion is about. Making the game the way you described here.

Your only reason against it is "That's not the way it is now, so that means it can't ever be done!" Your argument is very, very flimsy at best.

And your 3 examples of HM being easier than NM is basically only relegated to bugs and exploits that HM has that NM doesn't, just because NM monsters aren't strong enough to get raped as hard by Pain Inverter or sac skills or whatever. Personally, I can't see why anyone would want the game to be a huge grindfest.